My whole braking system - thinking out loud

[Captainfab]

I made just a little progress today, just ran out of time. I started by bolting on the base bracket for the Camaro caliper brackets. I got the rotor cleaned up a little and bolted onto the axle flange. Then I set an OEM front caliper on the rotor to get an idea where I need to go with a mounting bracket. I'll spend some time tomorrow brainstorming and see what I can come up with. Here's some pics......please excuse the rust. I'm just using what I already have until I make sure this Astro rotor is going to work.

HaHa...I didn't even notice the 'D52' on the brake pad until I posted the pic.....

[lolife99]

Thanks again, for all your effort in designing these brackets!

[Alvin]

Wow! I really like how the rotor looks.

In continuing my research, however, I have not been able to find a reasonable option for a parking brake. The pinion mounted units I found are only effective on light-weight vehicles. The parking brake calipers (an additional caliper for just the parking brake) that would fit a rotor of this size are cost prohibitive. Seems I'll just be running the camaro/impala ss stuff that I already have.

[aggie91]

I have been following this one off and on...What about this 13" rear kit that has the E-Brake:
http://www.stylintrucks.com/parts.as...tfamilyid=6324

Here is a front kit with 13" brakes:
http://www.stylintrucks.com/parts.as...tfamilyid=6325

Both ends with Cross Drilled Rotors for less then $1400.

Am I missing something here??

[suttoncurt]

Originally Posted by aggie91

I have been following this one off and on...What about this 13" rear kit that has the E-Brake:
http://www.stylintrucks.com/parts.as...tfamilyid=6324

Here is a front kit with 13" brakes:
http://www.stylintrucks.com/parts.as...tfamilyid=6325

Both ends with Cross Drilled Rotors for less then $1400.

Am I missing something here??

Thats not a bad price ! I just dont want the bigger brakes because my drag radials are 15'' , im not in love with the rear calipers in this kit either ? But that just my opinion ?

[aggie91]

Originally Posted by suttoncurt

Thats not a bad price ! I just dont want the bigger brakes because my drag radials are 15'' , im not in love with the rear calipers in this kit either ? But that just my opinion ?

Do you know what the calipers for the rear kit come off of? What is the OEM application for that caliper?

[suttoncurt]

Originally Posted by aggie91

Do you know what the calipers for the rear kit come off of? What is the OEM application for that caliper?

They look like the 91 impala ss caliper -It's what alot of the dirt track guys run here in arkansas . Correction - was just looking at captian fab's brackets and the impala used drum parking brake - The caliper in the kit is proab the camaro caliper

[N2TRUX]

aggie91- That kit looks great and it's the most economical solution for 13" brakes front AND rear. All the other kits out there run 13" front and 12" rear or smaller. Then you get in to the high-end stuff like Wilwood, and Baer.

The only catch to that kit is the rear axle flange needs mods for the rotor to work. There was a forum member in 73-87 that tried to install it and had to send it back. Let me see if I can find the thread.

edit-Found it- LINK

[Captainfab]

Made a little progress today, nothing worth pics though. I ended up getting a rebuilt caliper to work with since the two I dug up had stuck pistons. Man those rebuilt stock JB5, JB6 front calipers are cheap.....my cost was $12.50. I also went and borrowed the brake die that I think I'll need. So I should be able to get the first bracket bent up tomorrow.

[suttoncurt]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Made a little progress today, nothing worth pics though. I ended up getting a rebuilt caliper to work with since the two I dug up had stuck pistons. Man those rebuilt stock JB5, JB6 front calipers are cheap.....my cost was $12.50. I also went and borrowed the brake die that I think I'll need. So I should be able to get the first bracket bent up tomorrow.

Good Work Captian Fab ! You need to send me some business cards when i order these brackets and ill hand em out at the hot rod power tour !

[Captainfab]

Sure, I can do that.

Originally Posted by suttoncurt

Good Work Captian Fab ! You need to send me some business cards when i order these brackets and ill hand em out at the hot rod power tour !

Well not as much progress as hoped for......I did get some dimensions figured out and got the first bracket mostly layed out. I think tomorrow I may lock the doors so I can get something done.

[Captainfab]

Well I got the bracket finished up today but it ended up hitting the rotor. I looked at it long and hard but there's really no way around that with that design of bracket. So it's on to plan B. Now the challenge is figuring out how to make it without it being cost prohibitive and yet good and solid. I'll keep you guys posted

[oldspowered67C10]

Hey guys, if you convert to rear disc using Seville parts are the calipers used just like the front truck calipers but with a parking brake? Reason I ask is I was wondering if you could use the Wilwood D52 calipers with the Seville brackets. Thanks in advance.

[aggie91]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

aggie91- That kit looks great and it's the most economical solution for 13" brakes front AND rear. All the other kits out there run 13" front and 12" rear or smaller. Then you get in to the high-end stuff like Wilwood, and Baer.

The only catch to that kit is the rear axle flange needs mods for the rotor to work. There was a forum member in 73-87 that tried to install it and had to send it back. Let me see if I can find the thread.

edit-Found it- LINK

Thanks Ken, I saw that one a while back, but I still do not have an answer to my question.

The caliper in the rear kit has a parking brake, What was the OEM application for that caliper?

CaptianFab; I remember a thread that you had (or posted in) that had pictures of various calipers on a bracket that you made (or were making) one of the calipers had a mechanical parking brake, what OEM application was that caliper? I can't seem to find that thread...

[JW76]

One of his kits uses an 85 Camaro rear caliper Cardone #184164 same number left and right or a 85 Riviera rear caliper #184138 right and #184139 left. This is the kit is the one piece bracket

[JW76]

the second picture is to show the bracket... but i believe that is the front caliper from an 85 camaro....

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by oldspowered67C10

Hey guys, if you convert to rear disc using Seville parts are the calipers used just like the front truck calipers but with a parking brake? Reason I ask is I was wondering if you could use the Wilwood D52 calipers with the Seville brackets. Thanks in advance.

I don't think it is the same. The Seville caliper is a rear unit, and the Wilwood D52 replacement is designed for the front. Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel confident that the pattern is totally different.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

I don't think it is the same. The Seville caliper is a rear unit, and the Wilwood D52 replacement is designed for the front. Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel confident that the pattern is totally different.

And even if the caiper will mount, you still have the problem of the Wilwood D52 replacements being made for a thick rotor (1"+), which CaptainFab is finding hard to work with (using the Astro van rotor in this case). Never saw a number for how thin of a rotor the D52 replacements can be used on.

[aggie91]

I believe that the spacing between the mounting holes on the calipers is the same for the D52 caliper and the rear Seville/eldorado parking brake rear caliper.

In the pictures above, one is a rear caliper with the parking brake and the other one is a OEM D52 style front caliper.


I did some online searching today during lunch for the rear caliper that is in the Mcgaughy's kit. From the pictures, the caliper in the rear kit looks like pictures I found of the rear caliper on 1985 Buick Rivera or a 1985 Cadillac Eldorado. There are other models and years that use that same caliper. I just want to know if that is the caliper that they use in the kit....

[aggie91]

Originally Posted by Alvin

And even if the caiper will mount, you still have the problem of the Wilwood D52 replacements being made for a thick rotor (1"+), which CaptainFab is finding hard to work with (using the Astro van rotor in this case). Never saw a number for how thin of a rotor the D52 replacements can be used on.

They make to 4 versions of the Wilwood D52 caliper, two have 1.25" diameter pistons for a 1" and a 1.25" thick rotor. The other two have 2" diameter pistons for a 1" and a 1.25" thick rotor.

The smaller bore calipers are recommended for the rear and the larger for the front to keep proper front-to-rear bias. I got this info from the Summit catalog...

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by aggie91

They make to 4 versions of the Wilwood D52 caliper, two have 1.25" diameter pistons for a 1" and a 1.25" thick rotor. The other two have 2" diameter pistons for a 1" and a 1.25" thick rotor.

The smaller bore calipers are recommended for the rear and the larger for the front to keep proper front-to-rear bias. I got this info from the Summit catalog...

I think our facts are all in agreement. They make a caliper for a 1" thick rotor.

So now we're back to page 2.

Originally Posted by Captainfab

I might just take you up on that offer. Yes I can position the caliper so that closely matches the front calipers.

I've been doing some research on the Wilwood calipers. The ones for the narrower rotors, are spec'd for a 1.04" thick rotor. The Impala SS rear rotors measure .790 thick, which is quite a bit thinner.... .250 to be exact. As of now I haven't been able to find any info on the allowable stroke of the pistons in the Wilwood calipers. I may just need to give Wilwood a call. I don't know if the thinner rotors would be an issue or not, but .250 thinner seems like a bit much. An optional rotor to look at would be the lincoln rotors. They have the 5x5 bolt pattern, are only .060 smaller in diameter than the Impala SS rotors, but they are .955 thick. At this point they look like a better match to me. The one drawback to the lincoln rotors, is that the axle flanges need to be turned down to fit inside the hat of the rotor. What do you guys think?

If CaptainFab has brackets made for Seville calipers, it should be quite simple for him to test fit the d52 in the bracket. But that doesn't necessarily mean we've solved all the problems.

But seriously dude, good thinking! I'm hoping it works out.

[Captainfab]

Regarding the different calipers.

The Wilwood D52 calipers are a dual piston direct replacement/upgrade for the OEM D52 caliper applications. The specifics are as aggie91 posted. The "D52" just refers to a particular size of caliper that GM used from the late 60's when disc brakes came out thru about 1978-79 in the passenger cars. these come in two different piston diameters, 2.938" (2 15/16") and 3.156" (3 5/32"), but in the same casting with mounting pin dimension of 7.06". These were used in truck based applications up thru 1987 and thru 1991 in the Suburbans and Blazers in both 2wd and 4wd.

In 1978-79 on the passenger cars (there seens to be some cross overs there with different models too) GM went to a smaller casting for the calipers commonly referred to as "The Metric Caliper" There could be a "D" designation for these as well, but I don't know what that is off hand......I'm still learnin too. These calipers were used thru around 1994? when the PBR style caliper was used.

Enough of caliper class for now.....I made some progress on plan 'B' of the Astro rotor bracket. Here are some pics where I left off today. Keep in mind this is just a prototype, so the finished product will be more refined and nicer. Tomorrow I will be working on finding the most cost effective way to make the one part. So by Wednesday I should have some pricing on this rotor and caliper bracket setup. As a side note I noticed that the new slide pins supplied with the reman calipers seem to have a metric sized hex in them. My 3/8" allen didn't want to fit and I didn't have the correct metric sized allen to fit. It would appear to be a 9mm.....don't know if there is such a size?

[lolife99]

Thanks again for doing all the legwork on this.
Looks good.

[nlped]

I just went and looked through all of my metric allen wrenches and I don't have a 9mm at all. They all seem to jump from 8 to 10mm...Nice!

This brake stuff can be a major PITA, huh? You guys are really do a great job with this though.

Hey CaptainFab, my Dad lives in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. I'm going to be coming up there this summer to visit, so I may have to look you up and come bug you .

[smashingchuck]

Sweet!