Make it handle

[robnolimit]

OK, SEMA and the Optima OUSCI. Boy did we see some cool $h!t. Cloud9, Snakebit, and many many more. Getting to meet some of these guys was a treat. So many great stories. The HRIA - a division of SEMA, the Hot Rod Industry Aliance, covers the Hot Rod and Restoration market. At their dinner, they made the announcement that the 'commercial sector' (trucks) was the fastest growing and strongest market. - nice.
Yes, we finaly got an Optima ticket!!!! There were 6 trucks at Optima this year. A clean 29 roadster p/u from Hollywood Hot Rods, that was non-competitive, and 5 C10's.
Chris 'Smitty' Smith beautifull deep red 67
Summers and Sons bad black 70
The Roadster Shop's orange and white 72
Hill's blue and white blazer
No Limit's red 69 HellBoy
We kicked ass. There are 56 competetive entries. The slowest truck placed 24th overall. Trucks finished 12th, 15th, 16th, 22nd, and 24th. Congrats to all of the competitors, they did a great job. I know that StreetTrucks will be covering this event hard core, so keep your eyes open.

In Pleasanton we finished 2nd in the pro class. I had some tuning help from Mike Maier, who won the pro class in his 66 mustang with a 29.647. I ran a 29.941 for second, beating Brian Hobaugh's 70 Wilwood Camaro 30.140. Mike had been driving the truck as well and on his last lap of the day, after competetive timing, he ran a 29.430 in the truck, making it un-officially the fasted lap of the weekend.

Last weekend in Scottsdale, a three way battle developed in the pro class. RideTech's 33 ford, Roger Burman's 'Crusher' camaro, and our Hellboy C10. When the dust settled, we walked away with the overall win. The lead swapped many times. We ran a 30.341, Burman 30.645, RideTech 30.687. A few C10's were there in the truck class, which was won by the Schwatz chassis 51 chevy.

Our win in Scottsdale nets us 11 pro class points, and sows up the championship in Pro Truck. Third time in a row, No Limit takes the National Championship.

[BMERDOC]

Great job on your evil plan to take over the world!! When I saw you hadn't been on in a minute I looked at the calendar and noticed what time it was. Must be the life!

[jimmydean]

Rob, I love the work you've done on HellBoy. We an impressive truck and great showing. Thanks for the facebook pics. You know how to put your money where your mouth is.

Who better to take handling advise from than the 3 time champ!

[theastronaut]

Congrats on the Championship Rob! You're a huge inspiration and this thread has really changed the direction of my truck build. I appreciate the time and knowledge you share with us here.


I do have a technical question; I'm wanting to make the bag mounts on my '66 adjustable so that I can change the pressure in the bag (spring rate) and then reset my ride height by adjusting the bag mounts. This would keep the same suspension height/alignment while being able to quickly and easily adjust the spring rate.

Would something similar to stock car/circle track adjustable spring mounts work? They would need to be shorter. Or am I wasting my time? I want to be able to tune the suspension once it's all together, not just have a bunch of pretty go-fast parts bolted together.

[Wasted Income]

^cool idea!

[bdiamond]

I am in the early build stages of an 82 2wd blazer. I have rebuilt the front end with new balljoints and have installed Energy Suspension control arm bushings. I have also moved the lower arm forward 3/4". I have lowered it 5" in the front with 3" spindles and springs and rear I flipped. I haven't decided on sway bar sizes yet but plan both front and rear bars. I am working on the steering currently. I was thinking about installing a fast ratio box on it. What ratio would you recommend?

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by bdiamond

I am in the early build stages of an 82 2wd blazer. I have rebuilt the front end with new balljoints and have installed Energy Suspension control arm bushings. I have also moved the lower arm forward 3/4". I have lowered it 5" in the front with 3" spindles and springs and rear I flipped. I haven't decided on sway bar sizes yet but plan both front and rear bars. I am working on the steering currently. I was thinking about installing a fast ratio box on it. What ratio would you recommend?

Been looking into that myself. Agr is the only company that makes good boxes for squares. They make variable ratio and that's it no fast ratio

Ron we need to start bugging the market for steering boxes
Posted via Mobile Device

[gringoloco]

Don't count out RedHead steering gears. Do a little searching around the 'net on AGR- they're not always glowing reviews. Not saying its not a good product, but possibly inconsistent quality
Posted via Mobile Device

[undr8ed]

My $.02 on the adjustable bag mounts is it would be overkill. (Not that I'm not a fan of overkill!)

+/- ~1.5" from the bag's normal height (no pressure) is where the best ride will be. This depends on the bag, pressure, mount angle, etc. and I've also found no matter where I've put the sweet spot, I'm always driving just on the very bottom of that, lol

I would think air bag load rates and pressures you want to run would be more important.......

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

Congrats on the Championship Rob! You're a huge inspiration and this thread has really changed the direction of my truck build. I appreciate the time and knowledge you share with us here.


I do have a technical question; I'm wanting to make the bag mounts on my '66 adjustable so that I can change the pressure in the bag (spring rate) and then reset my ride height by adjusting the bag mounts. This would keep the same suspension height/alignment while being able to quickly and easily adjust the spring rate.

Would something similar to stock car/circle track adjustable spring mounts work? They would need to be shorter. Or am I wasting my time? I want to be able to tune the suspension once it's all together, not just have a bunch of pretty go-fast parts bolted together.

The idea is there, but these may be a bit bulky for a normal bag install. Typically the lower bag mount is on a flat plate with one or two bolts. When I plan out an install, I start with the tire, and the ride hieght. Like this, Tire is 28", so the spincle pin is at 14". I want the lower rail at, say, 7", so the pin is 7" above the bottom of the rail, so I start there. Set the lower A-arm and spindle to put the pin 7" above the bottom of the rail. Then bag mounts. At this point I would look up the spec mounting height of the bag, and add 1/2", then set the bag mounting plates at that distance apart, at ride height.
For tuning, I use some 1/4" aluminum discs. I start with two discs under the bag on the lower mount. The discs are usually 3 1/2" dia with a 7/16" hole in the middle. The two discs make up for the 1/2" added to the spec height. Then its easy to tune from there, just add or remove discs from there. If you need more adjustment than that, your mounts are way too far off to start with.

[Mike Bradbury]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

I just finished mine up this weekend...

I cannot see where your Pan hard bar is attached to the frame, looks like they are linked together only, is there a piece missing?

Looks great though. Maybe we have started a trend!

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by Mike Bradbury

I cannot see where your Pan hard bar is attached to the frame, looks like they are linked together only, is there a piece missing?

Looks great though. Maybe we have started a trend!

Good eye. You're correct, there's no panhard rod in that pic yet. That is next on my to-do list. The lower bar that connects the trailing arms is the one that Porterbuilt supplies with the stage 2 rear suspension. It is supposed to act as the lower shock mount. I will probably remove it to save a few lbs since it's not needed with my setup.

I also still need to box in the frame around the upper shock crossmember and the c-notch.

[gringoloco]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

...I will probably remove it to save a few lbs since it's not needed with my setup...

Member CC69Rat is needing one of those, if you're not using it.

[Gritty454]

Does anybody know how to get a 72c10 with trailing arms to hook up.
[i]Posted via Mobile Device[Do/i]

[gringoloco]

Originally Posted by Gritty454

Does anybody know how to get a 72c10 with trailing arms to hook up.
[i]Posted via Mobile Device[Do/i]

Try the drag racing section of the forum: "trucks haulin' more than hay". Those guys have it down to a science

[BMERDOC]

Rob, I'm sure you may have missed my last post since you were out running circles around the competition. I'll keep it short and I'll figure out the rest. How do you prefer to treat heated suspension components? We have talked about heating the steering arms to reshape them for correct bump steer. Do you prefer to let them dry naturally or quench them? I know too little about metallurgy but I think a wet rag is quicker than natural cooling but not as bad as using another method that would cool them too fast and make them brittle. Is there another method of cooling I could use? I know its all about reorganizing the molecules but I'm not sure of a homegrown method that is doable.

[hotrod1]

Rob:

How do u suggest adjusting a swaybar? Preload or no preload? Should the end links be adjustable (right hand heim and left hand heim) without unbolting either end, or can they just be a male heim and female heim together which would not let you adjust it unless you take one of the bolts out, shorten or lengthen it, and then rebolting.

Should the swaybar arm be parallel to the ground, or is it OK to be pointed up or down somewhat?

Any suggestion on pillow blocks?

[hotrod1]

Rob - Forgot:

Link perpendicular to the arm, parallel to the ground?????

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by BMERDOC

Rob, I'm sure you may have missed my last post since you were out running circles around the competition. I'll keep it short and I'll figure out the rest. How do you prefer to treat heated suspension components? We have talked about heating the steering arms to reshape them for correct bump steer. Do you prefer to let them dry naturally or quench them? I know too little about metallurgy but I think a wet rag is quicker than natural cooling but not as bad as using another method that would cool them too fast and make them brittle. Is there another method of cooling I could use? I know its all about reorganizing the molecules but I'm not sure of a homegrown method that is doable.

Usually I let them cool on their own. Oil cooling, in some old motor oil is a good method, but smells.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by hotrod1

Rob:

How do u suggest adjusting a swaybar? Preload or no preload? Should the end links be adjustable (right hand heim and left hand heim) without unbolting either end, or can they just be a male heim and female heim together which would not let you adjust it unless you take one of the bolts out, shorten or lengthen it, and then rebolting.

Should the swaybar arm be parallel to the ground, or is it OK to be pointed up or down somewhat?

Any suggestion on pillow blocks?

I like to do my baseline set ups with everything nuetral at RH. That iincludes all the weight + driver. Then set the links to a '0' pre-load. I really prefere all RH ends, harder to adjust, but never decide to make their own changes.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by hotrod1

Rob - Forgot:

Link perpendicular to the arm, parallel to the ground?????

Link somewhere between perpenditular to the ground and parallel to the axle/arm motion

Arms should be between parallel to the suspension link travel and the ground.

General rules

With everything connected, pull the coil-overs and check full suspension travel for binding.

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by undr8ed

My $.02 on the adjustable bag mounts is it would be overkill. (Not that I'm not a fan of overkill!)

+/- ~1.5" from the bag's normal height (no pressure) is where the best ride will be. This depends on the bag, pressure, mount angle, etc. and I've also found no matter where I've put the sweet spot, I'm always driving just on the very bottom of that, lol

I would think air bag load rates and pressures you want to run would be more important.......

That something else I've wondered about- how does the bag size and design (bellows vs rolling sleeve) affect handling? I remember it being mentioned that bags naturally have a progressive rate; would smaller bags have a quicker rise in rate vs larger bags? If so, wouldn't smaller bags resist body roll more? I've already bought D2600 bags for my '66 since I will be towing occasionally but I've never thought about how well they'll work for auto X until lately. Maybe they'll be fine for a soft spring/big sway bar set up?

Originally Posted by robnolimit

The idea is there, but these may be a bit bulky for a normal bag install. Typically the lower bag mount is on a flat plate with one or two bolts. When I plan out an install, I start with the tire, and the ride hieght. Like this, Tire is 28", so the spincle pin is at 14". I want the lower rail at, say, 7", so the pin is 7" above the bottom of the rail, so I start there. Set the lower A-arm and spindle to put the pin 7" above the bottom of the rail. Then bag mounts. At this point I would look up the spec mounting height of the bag, and add 1/2", then set the bag mounting plates at that distance apart, at ride height.
For tuning, I use some 1/4" aluminum discs. I start with two discs under the bag on the lower mount. The discs are usually 3 1/2" dia with a 7/16" hole in the middle. The two discs make up for the 1/2" added to the spec height. Then its easy to tune from there, just add or remove discs from there. If you need more adjustment than that, your mounts are way too far off to start with.

Thanks for the detailed reply Rob, that is definitely an easier and simpler way to adjust the bag height. Less weight too.

[dmw319]

Question for you Rob... would it be of any benefit to weld the seam that is on top of the rear trailing arms for a c10 1/2 ton? I know ECE sells the reinforcement steel plates that would be a better solution.. but would welding that seam yield any positive results or would it be a waste of time? Thanks

[oldblue1968chevy]

I welded and bolted mine (not a full seam but in spots) after Mine split in 2 On the ends...

[dmw319]

Originally Posted by oldblue1968chevy

I welded and bolted mine (not a full seam but in spots) after Mine split in 2 On the ends...

mine are in good condition and are not splitting on the ends, but I am wondering it if will strengthen them to weld the seam to keep them together/stronger.

This top seam right here: