Am I Expecting Too Much?

[Captainfab]

A week or so ago, I purchased a set of new, never installed ceramic coated headers from another borad member. I have to say I got a decent deal on them, or at least I thought so. Well yesterday I picked them up at the Post Office. When I opened the box up, there they were all beat up from banging around in the box. The seller did not even attempt to package them so as to protect them from damaging the ceramic coating on each other. I guess I just assumed he would do as I would do, by wrapping them in a plastic bag, bubble wrap, or something, not just toss them in the box and send them off.

So I sent him a PM last night, and he basically told me I'm SOL because he's not responsible for the damage the Postal service did. He claims that he packaged them the same way as he received them from Summit, and they were not damaged when he got them. I have not bought ceramic coated headers before, but the plain painted ones even come in a plastic bag.

So my question to you guys is. Am I expecting too much from a seller in thinking he should at least make an attempt to ensure the item I purchased from him arrives to me in the same condition as when he shipped it? With everything I sell here on the board, I do my best to make sure my customers receive their parts in as near perfect condition as possible.

I'm just a bit PO'd since my good deal on a set of new headers, will now cost me more than a new set, if I want to have these re-coated to new condition.

Here's a few pics, to prove I'm not just bs'n. There are a few areas where the it is down to bare steel.

[thelonerife]

I would have used the big bubble wrap on those. And I don't think your asking too much to receive them in the condition that they were represented to you in the for sale ad. Just my 2 cents

[Pop's C-10]

Those have been insatalled..that is not shippin damage...

[heeroyue2002]

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=493824

i do believe in this case the seller should refund the money. either that or try to file a claim with shipping but i think the shipping company may blame the packager.

[fine69]

Originally Posted by Pop's C-10

Those have been insatalled..that is not shippin damage...

I would go with this idea.

If that metal is so soft that they got that much damage in transit to you they will NEVER last on your truck.

[lolife99]

You are owed a refund in my mind.
If more people recieved damaged items or got burned by the price of shipping they would understand.
If you sell something,... you have to package it well.
Right now is the holiday season.
Many shipping companies have temporary help that really,... just don't care.

But this is neglect on the part of the previous owner.
I would be pissed.

[Pop's C-10]

Originally Posted by fine69

I would go with this idea.

If that metal is so soft that they got that much damage in transit to you they will NEVER last on your truck.

right...unless they slide out tha box...cardboard couldn't have done that..

[TennesseeZ]

The seller is responsible for packaging the item well enough to prevent damage by normal shipping. If the box was not damaged, the fault is with the seller for poor packaging, and he should refund your money and apologize for his mistake and for wasting your time, immediately. You have every right to expect the item to arrive in the same condition he received them in, and the condition represented in the pictures. Summit shipped them to him without damage, he's responsible for the same. Were they in the original box, just without the inside packaging? Was the box damaged from the outside? If not, seller is responsible.

[72freak]

Originally Posted by Pop's C-10

Those have been insatalled..that is not shippin damage...

Agreed!

[larry may]

Them headers and I agree with the above mentions. There has been an attempt to install them before you got them. BTW SUMMIT CERAMIC COATED HEADERS ARE SHORT LIVED anyway. They will peel and rust . "ie Junk"
Best header for these trucks BOUGHT A set from a board member that manufactures these from stainless and here to say have had no issue whatso ever. He is from North West states. May be Washington, Best bang for the money. just to mention IMO Summit is not professional as they were 10-15 years ago.Them headers may not fit your ride either.wo cutting your frame some...

[special-K]

It's real simple. The seller is "responsible" to package the item so it arrives to the buyer in the condition it left in.
I don't see why people think they were installed or that cardboard did it. That's what happens when both headers rub against each other for hundreds or thousands of miles. All it takes is some cardboard between them. Heck,stuff newspaper in there. I've even used empty water bottles to cushion. There's lots of free things to use that don't add much if anything to the weight. It's purely ignorant to just toss any two items in a box with no packing and expect them to arrive in good condition. Especially something with a $200+ coating.
There sure are a lot of posts about people with no ethics on selling lately. What happened? When did being a cop-out become ok? People need to learn to own up. Or better yet,be conscientious enough to never need to.

[Pop's C-10]

Originally Posted by special-K

It's real simple. The seller is "responsible" to package the item so it arrives to the buyer in the condition it left in.
I don't see why people think they were installed or that cardboard did it. That's what happens when both headers rub against each other for hundreds or thousands of miles. All it takes is some cardboard between them. Heck,stuff newspaper in there. I've even used empty water bottles to cushion. There's lots of free things to use that don't at much if anything to the weight. It's purely ignorant to just toss any two items in a box with no packing and expect them to arrive in good condition. Especially something with a $200+ coating.
There sure are a lot of posts about people with no ethics on selling lately. What happened? When did being a cop-out become ok? People need to earn to own up. Or better yet,be conscientious enough to never need to.

You bring up a good point...i never thought of that..

I stand corrected..

[Restrorob]

Originally Posted by Pop's C-10

You bring up a good point...i never thought of that..

I stand corrected..

I wouldn't cave that quickly Pop's,

Some box damage likely occurred but the brunt of the long scratches on the outside appear to have been made from shoving them between the engine and frame rail.....

I've received quite a few sets of painted headers thrown in a plastic bag in the box, Yes they were scratched but none appeared they had been scratched in the normal installation areas as these are.

The seller owe's a full refund for pre-installation or lack of proper packaging regardless......

[El Campo]

Captainfab it sucks that that happened to you. ESP since The stuff that you make and ship have literally THE BEST PACKAGING THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN. PERIOD!!! I bet you if you had shipped it they could have went around the world three times and not had a scratch on them . (for all of you who do not know Captainfab builds some super cool things and packages them to survive a world war)
Posted via Mobile Device

[Axle]

Are you expecting too much? Not at all.

But there is one thing I have learned over time, is that people in general have no clue about properly packaging anything, how to fill boxes, or how to stack things. They have no concept of thinking about possible damage that can occur. You gotta be explicit with everything if you expect thigns to arrive with any level of standard.

That said, my heddman headers came crammed in a box from the manufacturer. Not that I liked it like that... but if you are dealing with the clueless, they may have just redone them as they originally recieved them.

Alex.

[big_al_71]

I just sold a bunch of parts I took off my truck and I wish that the buyers would come in this thread and describe how I wrapped everything.


I go beyond and above. You are not expecting too much it is called common courtesy take pride wether it is a brand new part or an old 50 year old part there are a bunch of part time help nowdays handling all the shipments via the different companies and I am sure that the standards have gone down the drain.

[mbgmike]

Probably should stay out of this but,
I don't think you are asking too much. I would refund any customers money if they ended up like that. I agree it looks like there was an attempt to install them. Headers that are uncoated generally come from the mfg. in boxes loose but those are painted headers not ceramic. We have had damaged merchandise shipped but we try and corrrect the order even if its not our fault and at our cost. its just how business is done

[special-K]

I have those exact headers on my '72,only I bought the non-ceramic coated and had them coated locally. None of us knows for sure how those deep scratches got there,but I assume Capt Fab saw pictures first and those scratches weren't there. Mine went in pretty easy. Easy enough that I can't imagine anyone scratching the tough ceramic coating through like that trying to install them. It would take a sawing action over and over and over again. I can see how those cuts could be made from the edge of a flange being up against that spot and shifting back and forth. There was not even a bag over these headers from the way I read it. I have other ceramic headers I have yet to use still in the bags they were shipped in and they are fine.
Whenever I have sent parts in the past I've been concerned they make it unharmed. It would be a nightmare to have an issue like that. You have the money,the buyer has a damaged part. Nothing like selling a part to end up owing money. That's why you go over and above to pack a part the best you can to assure it arrives in the condition it left in.

[heeroyue2002]

if im correct in the link i posted before here they are pre sale.

[bigblock73]

You are entitled to a refund, period.

EVERY set of headers I have bought have always had the individual headers seperated by at LEAST a piece of cardboard...sometimes they have been wrapped in plastic too.

There is no way headers can travel any distance banging around against each other in the same box without getting damaged.

The headers pictured in the for sale thread look great and likely came packaged well as a result.

[Captainfab]

Thanks for all the support guys

I don't have reason to think these had been installed before. There are no signs that would lead me to think so. The headers were shipped in the original box. The box doesn't look to be what I would call in bad condition. It does look like it traveled from Summit to Texas, and from Texas to Idaho though. Like I said in my original post. These headers were in the box along with the bag of collectors and a set of gaskets....and absolutely nothing to protect the headers from banging on each other. This in my opinion is what caused this damaged. I could expect a little scuffing, but this is completely unacceptable.

I think I will send the seller a PM with a link to this thread, and see what he has to say.

[Slowtruk]

First of all let me say this: I am sorry I have not gotten back to you on this issue after the initial reply, I've been getting a ton of PM's lately on selling things. ANd with the holidays its been hectic. We've had dealings before and I have no intention of ruining a good name on this site.

The Headers were never installed. Proof would be to look at the surface that mates to the head, there will be no marks where bolts were installed. The way they were represented in the pics was the way they were sent. I told you that I recieved them with NO padding, NO plastic bags. The ONLY thing I can think of is that they must have had a cardboard slit seperating them in the box. The box you recieved them in was the factory box.

The reason I cant remember if they had cardboard or not is because its been at least 4-5 months since I pulled those out of the box, and they came with $1000 dollars worth of other things too. So it wasnt like I paid a lot of attention to how they came out. Heres a pic of the headers the moment they came out of the box.


ANd heres the pic I took the day I listed them and you bought them soon after


I should have taken greater care in packaging them, honestly I really didnt think too much about it. I had to calculate a shipping price, so out comes the box they came in, in goes the headers, down to the post office I go, lug the box in, have them weigh it, get a price, go back home, lug the headers back in the house, send you a pm, you buy them, lug them back to the post office, done.

I can however say that its obvious that SOMETHING seperated them when they were shipped to me. So it's pretty much my fault for being negligent.

So you paid $234 shipped for a set of $345.00 headers (price shipped to me), and they are damaged enough to jeopardize the life of the coating. I can:

1. refund you $134 and you keep the headers
2. refund the full $234 and you send them back.

Whatever you want to do. Sorry about all of this John

[Captainfab]

Well it doesn't make much sense to me to ship them back to you Nick, then you would have a set of damaged headers to try and sell. I would be happy with the $134.00 refund. Then I can have them re-coated, and not cost me more than a brand new set of coated headers.

I accept your appology. I know that sometimes s#!t happens, but it was your initial response that didn't set well with me.

[Slowtruk]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Well it doesn't make much sense to me to ship them back to you Nick, then you would have a set of damaged headers to try and sell. I would be happy with the $134.00 refund. Then I can have them re-coated, and not cost me more than a brand new set of coated headers.

I accept your appology. I know that sometimes s#!t happens, but it was your initial response that didn't set well with me.

$134.00 sent via Paypal. Glad we could settle it.

If you had wanted to send them back, I was going to hate having to ask you to slip a piece of cardboard between them

[Captainfab]

I received the refund......thank you, I'm glad too. All is good

I would have double bagged them plus the cardboard without you having to ask

Originally Posted by Slowtruk

$134.00 sent via Paypal. Glad we could settle it.

If you had wanted to send them back, I was going to hate having to ask you to slip a piece of cardboard between them